Is this a wind-up?

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Is this a wind-up?

Postby davestovell » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:50 pm

Check out this post about a method of using a hand saw to rip in the continental way.
Not sure if this is a wind-up or not but it just doesn't look right.

http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cultu ... _16023.asp
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby SeanHellman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:16 am

Christopher Schwarz's is a well respected woodworker and editor, so no it is not a wind up, to see more http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Video+Other+Ways+To+Rip.aspx 2 arms on the saw are better than one
I love things like this, as it gets us out of our little box and realise that there are many ways to do the same thing, and sometimes these new and unusual ways of doing something are better and easier. They also make us want to experiment. It is so easy just to do what we have been taught or seen and think that is the only way of doing something, it is not always.
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby davestovell » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:25 am

I agree with you Sean, but what has confused me is that the handle on the saw is made for holding in a particular way, so why has it not been adapted to the position shown or is it a new technique?

If we look at a tool like the hammer it is made in many, many styles, all modified slightly to suit the task in hand, so why has the saw not been modified?
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby SeanHellman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:59 am

Perhaps they have, I am no expert, and do not use hand saws much, I tend to rive instead of rip. Interesting area to study, and I have learned that the accepted norm tends to predominate. If saws are manufactured and a few designs are produced that is what people have to buy, it is a different story when a smith makes the blade and the carpenter has to make the handle.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby SeanHellman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:11 pm

Just watched the video again, and the way he holds the saw looks relatively comfortable and works well.

I do like the term " The continental, two cheek butt vice" very useful device and I have used mine often.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby davestovell » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:19 pm

Ahh yes whereas I tend to use the English knobbly limb jam technique (knee). :D
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby Nicola Wood » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:30 pm

SeanHellman wrote:I do like the term " The continental, two cheek butt vice" very useful device and I have used mine often.

:shock: I don't think I want to know what you use this for Sean, it's a family forum you know!
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby RichardLaw » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:37 pm

I like the straighter back position it produces.

Just because we do something the way it has always been done doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way. For example, look at the terrible short handled shovels we use here that give you a real pain in the back with long use. The French, Irish and no doubt many others prefer the long handled job which looks much more comfortable, but they just aren't sold here.
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby SeanHellman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:23 pm

There I go again getting into trouble with a moderator again.

Richard you had better include the Devonians in with the more sensible tool users, we have the Devon shovel, a heart like shovel end with a long curved handle made from something out of the hedgerow, a great tool for repairing or making Devon hedge banks. They still sell them!
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby Brian Williamson » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:06 pm

I did a boat-building course (Falmouth Tech.) many years ago on which there were several students fron Sierra Leone. To a man they sawed like this as a matter of choice (though always standing up as I remember). I use it as an occasional altenative to our more usual method and the grip is quite comfortable - though I dare say if you designed a handle specifically for it it would be better still.

I also picked up a tip from Mick Freeman (in a very early Gazette?) via the French wherein you hold your bowsaw between feet and knees and saw up and down on the blade. It's only really useful with small, short stuff, but is handy sometimes.

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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby bodgehog » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:19 am

Brian Williamson wrote:
I also picked up a tip from Mick Freeman (in a very early Gazette?) via the French wherein you hold your bowsaw between feet and knees and saw up and down on the blade. It's only really useful with small, short stuff, but is handy sometimes.



Very useful if you have no means of securing the workpiece firmly.

I rather like the 'continental' method shown. I unknowingly sat on a split loo seat once - I'm sure you can imagine what happened when I tried to stand up - ouch! Oh how they laughed :roll:
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby arth » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:52 pm

bodgehog wrote:
I rather like the 'continental' method shown. I unknowingly sat on a split loo seat once - I'm sure you can imagine what happened when I tried to stand up - ouch! Oh how they laughed :roll:


That's East Sussex for you :wink:
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby Donald Todd » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:33 am

I don't think this method allows you to see and control the lateral attitude of the saw very well. Using a Japanese or English Rip Saw, standing, allows you to sight down the saw and would be better for thicker pieces.
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby woodness sake » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Since we’re talking heresy here, I’d like to step all the way out and come back with what defines “heart and knack”, one of the rarest of attributes.
Consider please, the movie The Forbidden Kingdom with Jet Li and Jackie Chan. Briefly, in the course of the tale, a “traveler” is being instructed in Kung Fu, in its forms and philosophy. The student is taught that the Poet, the Musician , and other seemingly unrelated artists (I have to suppose woodworking to be suggested as one of these) can all have Kung Fu, in spirit if not in obvious practice. One aspect is to know the form and yet to become formless. This is the purview of the advanced or master practitioners, those willing to keep an open mind and to keep extending their grasp and application of basic techniques and practices.
It is not always convenient or even possible to work wood on a table or other support system. Sometimes the body must be in an irregular stance or position in order to apply the tool. Sometimes it is more efficient to assume non-standard posture. In the middle-east, for instance, the sitting position is the standard since standing to do almost any kind of work in 100+f degree and extremely high humidity could lead to severe medical interruption of the task at hand.
In any case, if you can work outside the box or even where there is no box, your Kung Fu is good as is your heart and knack.
And now, back to . . .
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Re: Is this a wind-up?

Postby SeanHellman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:38 am

woodness sake

Here, here, I totally agree.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
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