Abrasives

Discuss new ways of doing things, old ways adapted to new contexts.

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Re: Abrasives

Postby Robin Fawcett » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:34 pm

Has anyone come across Abranet abrasives? I bought some to try when I was demonstrating at Chelmsford Turning Club.
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Abrasives/Abranet/abranet.html
About the most modern hi-tech sandpaper going. It's supposed to last forever and you can wash it.
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Re: Abrasives

Postby SeanHellman » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:49 pm

Donald Todd wrote: I switched to using sandpaper so the grit can't be seen, but it's still there. I hate to think of what this does to people's teeth when used on treen!


Why not use a scraper? Anyway I really do not see it as a problem in any way whatsoever. How about stone ground flour, there is far more grit it in that than you will ever get from your sanded spoon. I now really do prefer the knife finish on my spoons and treen and it is a blessed relief not to sand anymore
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Bertie » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:30 pm

I find many of the statements here "interesting" in that the assumption is that those who say things like" i make spoons and I never, ever sand them. I love the crisp, sharp lines that come straight off the tool. If you sanded such a small item it would round and blunt all the corners and to my eye make them less appealing. Here's an example of my tooled finish:" know exactly what they are talking about.
Statements like sanding hides the grain - THINK ABOUT IT - does it really. What about tool marks obscuring the grain? Ahh but thats ok because we are not talking fact here, we are talking religion.
I dont know about you , but i have to go over my spoons after i have sanded them taking the edges off so people can eat with them without cutting themselves because the edges are so sharp.
Id like to see a little more fact Nicola, and perhaps a little more honesty. I can, can you?
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Re: Abrasives

Postby robin wood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Bertie wrote:I find many of the statements here "interesting" in that the assumption is that those who say things like" i make spoons and I never, ever sand them. I love the crisp, sharp lines that come straight off the tool. If you sanded such a small item it would round and blunt all the corners and to my eye make them less appealing. Here's an example of my tooled finish:" know exactly what they are talking about.
Statements like sanding hides the grain - THINK ABOUT IT - does it really. What about tool marks obscuring the grain? Ahh but thats ok because we are not talking fact here, we are talking religion.
I dont know about you , but i have to go over my spoons after i have sanded them taking the edges off so people can eat with them without cutting themselves because the edges are so sharp.
Id like to see a little more fact Nicola, and perhaps a little more honesty. I can, can you?


Bertie, words on the internet can sometimes come across more adversarial or with different meanings than was intended. I read the tone of your note as being quite needlesly adversarial and I simply don't understand why you are having a go at Nicola, she posted only once in this thread, the second post on May 16th where she said "That said, I'm not totally against other people sanding their work!"

Since Nicola's post you have posted 8 previous notes on the thread before returning for another go.

I see nothing reading back in anyone's posts that is dogmatic, which is what I presume you mean by the religion comment. I didn't find the "sanding hides the grain" comment. I was talking recently with Mark Jones director of the V@A and we were disusing the term "innovative" so loved of the arty end of the craft spectrum. Mark pointed out that it means little and what we should be concerned with is excellence. It is possible to produce excellent craftwork within contemporary or traditional, I would also say it is possible to produce excellent sanded finishes and excellent tooled finishes (and poor examples of both). As an admirer of craft skill I tend to admire an excellent tooled finish more since I believe (this may be your religion bit) that it takes more time to learn and a higher degree of hand skill to achieve an excellent tooled finish. An excellent sanded finish can be achieved in minutes with a random orbital sander and little skill.
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Nicola Wood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:15 pm

Bertie wrote:Id like to see a little more fact Nicola, and perhaps a little more honesty. I can, can you?

Wow Bertie what's that about?? :shock: I see that as a completely unnecessary personal attack. Please back off :(
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Re: Abrasives

Postby goldsmithexile » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:13 pm

Bertie must of had a "rough" old day..... :lol:
He likes his sand paper routines and seems put out that not many others on here do, whats else to say? Hyper perfect smooth neo-CNC type forms dont hold much interest for me.......
Personally I dont use abrasives very much, (really only for refurbing metal actually-its more ueseful to me in that respect) largeley because of the dust, and the irritating noise that Peter did mention :x . If a knife (or chisle or plane edge) has a 4000 grit waterstone edge that is going to polish the wood, in fact I believe the jap's have special polishing planes for that purpose. I do like to use scrapers to get a fine finish. But I LIKE the subtle facets that occur on green woodworked items (not just spoons).how light plays on the surfaces, wether they are axed, adzed, drawknifed, spokeshaved or whatever, I like the way that the light reflects off the different textures especially if the wood is painted. This daft notion that quality equates with a sandpapered smooth fine finish is like someone saying a portrait is only "good" if it is a photorealistic copy.... :roll: Anyway I like the sound of thin thin layers of wood being sliced away by a plane or scraper...
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Jack » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:03 pm

Anoraks 1 Bodgers 0 ?

I think that some of the comments on this topic are a little too "involved".
Some are a little too personal.
Opinions are just that. Opinions.
The APT does not have or need an official line on the use of abrasives.
It is for personal preference.

Now please move on.

Thanks

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Re: Abrasives

Postby Bertie » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:29 am

You are quite right - i apolagise for this personal attack - i am completely wrong - what i said was untrue.
This forum is well known for its open and free views and total lack of personal attacks.

And yes i possibly am having a bad day, but every so often i need to clear the air -
Perhaps i should leave you in peace.
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Donald Todd » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:25 pm

Robin Fawcett wrote:Has anyone come across Abranet abrasives? I bought some to try when I was demonstrating at Chelmsford Turning Club.
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Abrasives/Abranet/abranet.html
About the most modern hi-tech sandpaper going. It's supposed to last forever and you can wash it.


I've got a small sample piece of P180 that I was given about 4 years ago. I don't seem to use anything else now, although I'm not sanding much stuff. One of its virtues is that it is very flexible and the dust just drops through it. I don't notice any deterioration in its cutting power. I still have the leaflet with 2 suppliers listed if anyone has sourcing problems.
The maker is at http://www.mirka.com
Supplier 1 is T & J Tools, Rugby at http://www.t-jtools.co.uk
Supplier 2 is A S K Tools, Birstall at http://www.asktools.co.uk

Has anyone any knowledge of the history of "sanding" wood?
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Graeme Fraser » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:42 pm

I use sandpaper! There I've said it. I'm very much the beginner and would love to learn to make a spoon or other treen having left neat and precise yet rustic tool marks. However, for eating spoons I like to go right the way down to 2500 grit wet and dry. Like plastic? I've never seen plastic with feature uncovered by such laborious and fine sanding as this. Swirls and streaks that become alive and glow, wood that shimmers and shows that someone thought highly enough of their work and the end use to perservere with such dedication. Fine sanding helps protect and preserve the work too by not allowing moisture to get too much of a grip on the surface although I appreciate some woods just won't be overtly affected.

In truth, I love all forms of greenwood carving and to me, all have their place and I wouldn't have one without the other. Contrast is often what does it for me - I'd revel in dipping my highly sanded and polished eating spoon into a freshly turned non-sanded breakfast bowl. Just like knives, I love to see a blade with natural forge finish left on, showing every one of the smith's hammer blows and his undoubted skill yet I love a highly polished, beautifully finished showpiece of a knife too.

Why can't we have treen for decoration? Who says? I don't want to rub up anyone the wrong way here especially given the limitation of my skills and I admit I do like what I make to be used but recently I made a beechwood spork for a friend that he used at camp and was delighted with. When he got home he popped it in his kitchen display cabinet and tells me folk are often asking about it. The pictures look great too. I'll make everything to be used but some will end up being displayed more often than being put to task. Vanity and pride I suppose but I don't care.

On my intro post, someone said go your own way and that sounds like great advice to me! That said, I reckon I need to go on a course to refine my technique so I can experience the satisfaction of not having to sand some pieces. It seems very important to learn the best techniques then decide what you want to do after that. I suspect, however, that the better I get, the less I'll want to sand. Coming to Scotland, Robin/Nicola/Anyone?

The Opinionated Beginner :oops:
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Re: Abrasives

Postby gavin » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:18 pm

Red Kite wrote:Coming to Scotland, Robin/Nicola/Anyone?


PM sent!
or come to Tweed Green, Peebles
- where you'll see fleetpeople and gavin demonstrating this Sat 24 and Sun 25 Oct 2009

Bring your carving kit, and a stool and join in the fun!
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Re: Abrasives

Postby RichardLaw » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:58 pm

Red Kite wrote:all have their place


I made a polite suggestion that sanded and knife-finished spoons are different and should have their own classes at t'Ball - fell on deaf ears I fear!
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Re: Abrasives

Postby Ian S » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:40 pm

Hi Red Kite

One of the most lucid and well reasoned posts I've read, certainly on this topic.

My take?

Tooled finish if you want to - it's good.

Sanded finish if you want to - it's good.

Pretty well end of discussion.
How sharp is sharp enough?
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