Scary sharp

vaguely woodworking

Moderators: jrccaim, Bob_Fleet, gavin, Robin Fawcett, HughSpencer

Scary sharp

Postby davestovell » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:44 pm

There is scary sharp, there is Über sharp but this has to be very scary Über sharp!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrmCyADN ... r_embedded

It is also the only process I can think of that the waste (shaving) is as beautiful as the object.
User avatar
davestovell
Regular
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:33 pm
Location: braintree

Re: Scary sharp

Postby SeanHellman » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Would not want to put a nick in that blade :shock: . Getting it sharp not to much of an issue, setting the blade in the plane, big issue. I have played around with English wooden planes and love them, their weight and the way they can glide over the wood is sublime. Setting them is something I need a bit more practice at. Thanks for sharing, inspiring to watch.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
Green wood courses, tools, demonstrations.
http://www.seanhellman.com/woodwork/
User avatar
SeanHellman
Regular
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: South Devon

Re: Scary sharp

Postby robin wood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:18 pm

Those are thick shavings, I have a bunch made at kesurokai events (planing together) which are pretty well see through to the extent you can put them over a sheet of text and read through them. To win at the competitions the shaving has to be complete, the full width and full length of the board so the first shaving shown was a fail as there was a little tear at the end. Only full shavings are measured with micrometers and the winner is the thinest. They get a bit serious about it.
http://www.robin-wood.co.uk bowls, books and courses
User avatar
robin wood
Regular
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:21 am
Location: derbyshire

Re: Scary sharp

Postby davestovell » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:32 pm

You are right Robin, here is another link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Ad6tBd ... r_embedded

They measure the shaving at 9 microns!!!
User avatar
davestovell
Regular
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:33 pm
Location: braintree

Re: Scary sharp

Postby davestovell » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:33 pm

Do you know what wood it is that they are using?
User avatar
davestovell
Regular
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:33 pm
Location: braintree

Re: Scary sharp

Postby robin wood » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:48 am

davestovell wrote:Do you know what wood it is that they are using?


It's straight clean softwood, I do not know if it is always the same species I suspect it varies. Results only need to be comparable on the day with everyone planing on the same piece. Whilst this is a bit of a technical exercise it is done in a large spirit of fun very much like log to leg racing. Unlike log to leg racing it genuinely improves the standards of everybody's work. Toolmakers are very actively involved in the keurokai organisation as well and they objectively test tools. I heard of one event where they sharpened up plane blades then had teams that would plane continuously with them for several hours before looking at the wear unders scanning electron miocroscope. That may all sound like a step too far but if you genuinely want to know which is the best tool that gives you objective results where we have a lot more objectivity involved in the way folk evaluate tools.
http://www.robin-wood.co.uk bowls, books and courses
User avatar
robin wood
Regular
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:21 am
Location: derbyshire

Re: Scary sharp

Postby TonyH » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:54 am

So the shavings are examined with a micrometer, the worn blades with an electron microscope.

It would, IMHO, make much more sense to examine the flatness and quality of finish of the workpiece, rather than the waste ?
TonyH
Regular
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: Scary sharp

Postby ToneWood » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:54 pm

How much of the skill is in the shaving compared to the skill that went into the sharpening and the setting up of the plane (and possibly preparing the plank)? The beginners were getting impressive results. Are those massive planes used in Japanese woodworking (for cutting veneers perhaps) or are just designed for these competitions?
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: Scary sharp

Postby robin wood » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:40 pm

The wide planes are unusual but they are the things folk point cameras at, the vast majority of woodworking and also the vast majority of the planes at competitions are about 3" wide blades. The surface finish produced when you take one of these shavings off is like polished glass, totally flawless. As with any tool a lot goes into the making of the tool, sharpening setting up and also how it is used has an effect. I used them when they were running competitions at the Kesurokai in Germany in 2004 and 2007 and also did quite a lot of hand planing on a worksite in Japan building a tea house, there you see the value of the time spent playing, it speeds the process of getting from a tree to a superb finish.
http://www.robin-wood.co.uk bowls, books and courses
User avatar
robin wood
Regular
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:21 am
Location: derbyshire

Re: Scary sharp

Postby Everything Mac » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:20 am

That's incredibly impressive.
Everything Mac
new member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Scary sharp

Postby Everything Mac » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:20 am

That's incredibly impressive.
Everything Mac
new member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Scary sharp

Postby davestovell » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:26 am

I have been trying to put more method into my approach recently. meticulously nursing the edges of all my tools. I have been getting some very good finishes on end grain with the skew, however to get that final honed edge I have found that I am getting better results if I use Autosol on wood as I am finding that I just can't match the edge if finished on a leather on wood strop. My theory is that the leather is deforming and coming back up and rounding the edge as it passes over the surface. I have tried light pressure hard, fast and slow and still the edge is not as sharp as Autosol on wood.

I have found that just a couple of strokes on the autosol makes the difference between fighting skids and run-offs and getting that control and finish that I desire.

Yes I know that I should stick with what works for me but I am curious if others have found a problem with leather or if I have adapted a bad habit.
User avatar
davestovell
Regular
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:33 pm
Location: braintree

Re: Scary sharp

Postby ToneWood » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:33 pm

That is very interesting. Perhaps that is the secret of ultimate sharpness, Autosol on wood. It might well be that the leather has some give in it: using a surface that has give (e.g. an old mouse mat or unsupported grinding belt) is a common technique to give blades a robust convex bevel (e.g. on bush knives). And/or - as you suggest - perhaps it is curving a tiny burr over. Stropping against wood probably reduces or eliminates the give: perhaps you could take it a step further and strop with autosol on glass, metal or polished stone (e.g. marble/slate)?

BTW a forum member recently mentioned using a piece of wood to smooth his wooden butter spreaders, rather than (or as well as) sanding/scraping.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: Scary sharp

Postby SeanHellman » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 am

Interesting issue Dave. I can get very thin shavings with my plane and I always strop on leather, a hard 3mm thick veg tan and have no problems. I also find on most tools that if I put a slightly convex edge that comes from using strops or from convex sharpening that I have a stronger edge that lasts that bit longer. It is hard to tell if anyone has bad habits just by writing stuff on a forum. Sharpening techniques vary, and people can get very worked up about it. The proof of the pudding is how sharp your tool is. If you want to peruse this then I would recommend the 3M self adhesive papers that go all the way down to 0.3 of a micron, you can not get finer than that. Get them from Matthew at Workshop Heaven. When you go to 3 micron and below then there is no reason to strop.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
Green wood courses, tools, demonstrations.
http://www.seanhellman.com/woodwork/
User avatar
SeanHellman
Regular
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: South Devon

Re: Scary sharp

Postby ToneWood » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:10 pm

Coincidentally, I came across a post here by Robin Wood, talking about using Autosol on MDF because it doesn't have much give: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showth ... ost1103348
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Next

Return to Any other business

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest