Porringer

All things bowl turning, hooks, lathes etc..

Moderators: jrccaim, Bob_Fleet, gavin, Robin Fawcett, HughSpencer

Porringer

Postby Heath » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:39 pm

Thought I'd have a go at making a different kind of bowl. Not perfect, but I'm happy with it as a first attempt.
More details on the blog: http://holtheathwoodentreen.blogspot.co ... inger.html

Image
Heath
new member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:14 pm

Re: Porringer

Postby Shankar » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Looks good to me esp for a first attempt.

Shankar
Shankar
Regular
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Birmingham UK

Re: Porringer

Postby gavin » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:43 am

Shankar wrote:Looks good to me esp for a first attempt.

Shankar

Shankar,
There is an understandable tendency in on-line forums for someone to post an image of what they've made and folks then all say Nice - I like it - Well done etc. It is such a cliche few people pay much attention to such images. No one is willing to share publicly the thoughts they may actually have in their head. Like when you cast your vote for work submitted in the competitions at the Bodgers Ball - you know damn well which work you think needs improving and sometimes why. In the privacy of your skull, you allow yourself those thoughts. We are anxious about offending our fellows, so we are not honest in the public glare of a forum.

This is sad, for it lowers the bar of aspiration and reduces the chance of us all learning some key distinctions. It also reduces the amount of truth in the world.

Because I note you write esp for a first attempt I wonder if you would be so kind as to share with us all the areas you'd suggest be made differently in any subsequent attempt? I note Heath offers more info on his blog, so you can research it thoroughly. ( And thank you Heath for not swamping this board with umpteen images of this object, and you'd improve your feedback if you'll offer more images on your blog.)

Now I am putting Shankar on the spot here. To encourage Shankar's reply, I ask Heath the creator of this object to first answer this question: "Do you want pats on the back and praise? Or do you want frank comment?"

Depending on Heath's response, I will then comment too.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: Porringer

Postby TonyH » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:16 am

I'm fairly new to green woodworking, but not to communication by internet. I think it helps a lot to remember that at the other end of the cable, behind the screen name, there is a (probably) fairly normal human with the usual needs and feelings. So imagine you'd walked up to a guy turning something at the Bodgers's ball, and he'd said "Here's one I made earlier" with a hint of pride, and passed you that bowl. What would you say ? Just flatter him with a pat on the back, tear it to pieces with criticism, or something more sophisticated ? I've posted pictures of things I've made many a time, and IMHO praise is always nice, but questions about how and why you did it the way you did, and even criticism (if put nicely !) are fine.
TonyH
Regular
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: Porringer

Postby Heath » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:59 pm

Firstly, praise is always nice. It encourages us to keep on and that is important. I've been on forums like this one for quite some time now and if someone posts something that i like, I usually tell them. If, on the other hand, I'm not particularly impressed, then I don't bother. I assume other people do the same, but I could be wrong.
However, criticism is also appreciated. As I mentioned, this is a first attempt and I am aware of some of my mistakes, so for example, I think that it is too deep. I also think that I might do my next one a bit thinner. I wonder whether the carved section should be closer to the turned section, but I don't want to mar the turned section in the attempt. I also think that maybe the handles should be orientated differently in the log so that there is less endgrain.
So even better than criticism would be advice. Some pics of similar bowls would be great as well.
Heath
new member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:14 pm

Re: Porringer

Postby TonyH » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:12 pm

I quite liked the shape of it. I did wonder if the carved section would not be better as either a definite feature, or more completely trimmed away.

I wondered what shape the blank was for one of these, so I went away and watched a video of Robin making one. If you turn it so that the handles are oriented differently, won't you need to start with a bigger blank and turn more away ?
TonyH
Regular
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: Porringer

Postby Shankar » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:50 pm

I thought it was a nice piece so I said so. Nothing wrong in that.
I don't want to be too critical in that I cannot do better.
If I was to be picky I would agree with Tony that the flange left from creation of the handles is best trimmed flush.
This will accentuate the handles. The handle could be better shaped thicker with outer edge thinning toward the attachment point.
Be bolder with the bevels on the edge of the handle.

I am talking with only minimal experience and understand how the fist bowl is precious and we play it safe.
Once you start making more you get braver and start experimenting knowing that its only a piece of wood if it all goes wrong.

PS Gavin; I've not burned my first bowl yet. Will post pictures of the cremation when I get round to it.
The second was much better which I tried to burn (a la Robin Woods black bowls) as willow was boring but ended up with irregular burns.

Shankar
Shankar
Regular
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Birmingham UK

Re: Porringer

Postby gavin » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:05 pm

Shankar wrote:PS Gavin; I've not burned my first bowl yet. Will post pictures of the cremation when I get round to it.

Do not burn it to ashes. Keep it. Cut it in half to better observe your profile thickness. I was at first horrified when Robin Wood suggested this cutting in half to me, but it teaches you a lot. I subsequently saw a talk by Richard Raffan where he showed both images of his early and later bowls cut in two. It does set you thinking and analysing
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: Porringer

Postby gavin » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:15 pm

Some rhetorical questions - I am not personally interested in the answers:
How does it feel when you put food or liquid or porridge in it? Does it feel comfortable? How does it balance i.e. how is the feel in the hand? Does the profile conform to any curves you'll find in archaeological sites or museums or their online images? . If you want to get right into this, obtain a copy of Richard Raffan's Turned Bowl Design for further comment.
What is the aspect ratio of this internally and externally, and how does that compare to any other wood or ceramic ware you have in your home?
I see on your blog you have many other bowls. You'll have some favourites amongst them, and I guess these will cluster around particular aspect ratios.
When you have noted in your note book all the salient points you wish ( you do keep such a note book ??) then take a saw and cut it in half on the longest axis. Take images. File them so you can find them later. The half-bowl will show where your wall thicknesses need tweaking.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: Porringer

Postby ToneWood » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:28 pm

Nice bowl - I'd be happy to eat my porridge out of it :).

You raise several interesting points Gavin, as does TonyH. For my part, I guess a little helpful criticism/guidance balanced with some positive encouragement would probably be ideal. My wife, who is not an uncritical person generally, strangely will not criticize my bowls, spoons and greenwood projects - which can be a little frustrating, she's an artist and I guess that is how they learn to treat each other, art is a very personal thing so you have to be a little careful. I see this with children: a little positive encouragement can have truly remarkable benefits - so discouragement could presumably cause considerable harm. But I think the Montessori approach to education has an interesting point to make on this too: they encourage adults to give children reasonable encouragement rather than constant, effusive, over-the-top encouragement - which they believe will stifle growth and ambition by allowing the child to become too easily satisfied before they have reached their full potential. Perhaps that is Gavin's point?

So I now ask my family specifically to critique my work at specific times, when I feel I need some feedback/guidance (too big? too heavy? too thick? round or oval? should I stop now? what about the handles? texture? etc.). That way, it's clear that I am looking for criticism rather than "stroking", also you can limit any negativity to a time when you are ready for it and receptive. Even so, they are far less critical of my work than I am myself. It's quite easy to look back and see the mistakes - it's harder to see it while you are working on an item, and harder yet to foresee it when you are just starting it. I expect eventually it will become more difficult to judge one's own work objectively, when the issues are no longer technical and glaring but more subtle and mainly aesthetic.

BTW Here's a link for the book Gavin mentioned: Turned-bowl Design [Paperback] - by Richard Raffan (Author)
Image

The aesthetics of bowls is a subject that interests me, although my interest is in carved rather than turned bowls (but I can appreciate a a George Lailey bowl).
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: Porringer

Postby gavin » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:17 pm

ToneWood wrote:The aesthetics of bowls is a subject that interests me, although my interest is in carved rather than turned bowls [/url]).

Are you up to cutting along firstly the long axis of your carved bowls and secondly the short axis? You will learn so much by so doing. I will post images of my half-bowls when I next see mine in my shed. I only turn bowls and have only carved 2.

You will more happily do this with a dislikeable bowl and much less happily with a good and liked bowl. But both in half will teach you much and allow you to tweak your future performance. This makes for a profound lesson in non-attachment. You are not losing many bowls by such butchery. You in fact gain many more future bowls of greater beauty 'cos you'll understand better what works.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland


Return to Bowl turning

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests

cron