Green wood carving books?

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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby ToneWood » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:33 pm

Gavin/mstibs, do you think a traditional brace & bit would be up to drilling leg holes for a shave horse/stool (would it be a good tool for the task)? Last time I used one I was still a child and recall it used to get stuck pretty easily - but I see that fairly large auger bits for them are not unusual:
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I'm trying to figure out where the brace & bit fits into the vast pantheon of tools. Surprisingly, they are quite a lot cheaper than Scotch augers (& presumably more versatile). But perhaps I should just stick with the electric drill & Foerstner bits - noisy & annoying but near to hand (and I recently found my spare motor brushes* if I manage to burn the drill out :D).

BTW the little screw bit on the tip of the auger seems a bit of a weakness - presumably you could not use such an auger to widen a previously drilled hole, for example.

*V. cheap Focus drill - but comes with spare motor brushes what a great idea. The big brands should do the same, B&Ds are well known for burning out & usually uneconomic send away for repair.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby RichardLaw » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:59 pm

I like to put one and a half inch tenons in benches that will get some hammer. You can get away with one inch joints in "normal" stools. When I first started working in green wood I drilled some one inch holes with a power drill (end grain into logs to support roping off stakes). It was thoroughly dangerous. If the bit gets stuck in the wood the drill keeps on turning, and your hands and wrists with it, as you no doubt have your drill on low speed/high torque, there's no way you can hold it. I think I'm still feeing the effects today.

On the other hand a brace and bit would be struggling at an inch plus, the leverage is so small, however, if you get a good work out beforehand by drilling holes with a scotch eye auger you might build up enough strength to use a brace and bit for the job.

Just reading the chapter in The Village Carpenter about boring the holes in green elm for water pumps - they didn't use electricity, nor yet brace and bit. Spoon augers with 5 foot handles!
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby gavin » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:12 pm

You will rarely see such brace bits over 1" diameter. Which tells us they are very hard to turn in a brace. I recommend a Scotch or Scots eye auger over 1" and even at 1".

I also agree Richard Law comment that for decent strength you want 1 and half inch legs in any thing that will have shock loads or lateral stress. But for stools or benches you just park your bum on, then 1" is fine.

Because you will want a variety of diameters, consider buying hex-shanked bits ( i.e. for powered drills0 in a range of diameters over 1" and then getting them retro-fitted by a local blacksmith or engineering shop with an welded eye from 25 or 32 mm diameter pipe [b]and /b] a strap over that eye. Doing this will give you a set of augers of the similar lengths ( so they fit in a tool roll more readily) and at lower cost.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby RichardLaw » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:31 pm

If you have a socket set with a T-bar find the size that fits the hex-ended augers and use that - if not enough leverage turn some handles, bore holes in them fitting on the T-bar ends to make extensions.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby ToneWood » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:29 pm

I don't know any welders - actually that's not true, I know several v. accomplished welders but none weld anymore (that work disappeared abroad decades ago :() apart from a local farmer who is busy these days. However I like the T-bar idea - I saw 2 or 3 augers like that on ebay, possibly in the USA. I don't have a lathe but I could make a T-bar with my draw knife - will it be strong enough around the small end of the auger I wonder though?

The books by Drew Langsner, Wille Sundqvist & Jogge Sundqvist all feature essentially the same (Swiss) shave horse design. However, Jogge has added more drawings and many more dimensions in his (newer) book. I notice that he suggests 30mm holes (i.e. > 1") for his 45/1.5' legs. I was thinking it might be nice to put some slimmer legs on the shave horse (e.g. split ash) to make it lighter for transporting but I think you are right, "go big!" I'm quite heavy, I also "put my weight into it" when using the draw knife and would like this piece of equipment to be robust (as my workbench isn't) and long lasting. If I used legs of the same diameter as my bowlmate, it will look like the proverbial brick outhouse.
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Jogge's got a new book...

Postby ToneWood » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:44 pm

I see Jogge Sundqvist has recently come out with a new book, in Swedish: "TÄLJ FÖR KÖK OCH TRÄDGÅRD!"
Which Google translates as: "Carve for kitchen & garden"...I think jrccaim suggested that Swedish is more like English than modern German, I can see what he means.
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I just bought some artists oil paints inexpensively off ebay to try. Not sure where to start, maybe paint one of my edge guards brightly* so I don't loose it or perhaps red or blue sides on my willow bowl (the inside has some lovely gouge marks but the outside it relatively plain by comparison). I should probably translate Jogge's chapter on this - given the amount of text, he probably does more than just brush it on.
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*You don't need to buy lots of colours, as you can mix most colours once you have a few basics. I managed to make a bright lime green for a lobster pot marker float a few years ago from a couple of basic acrylic colours - it worked much better than I'd expected.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby bulldawg_65 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:45 pm

Just got my copy of Mike Abbott's "Green Woodwork: Working with Wood the Natural Way" and I cannot wait to get into it! http://www.amazon.com/Green-Woodwork-Working-Wood-Natural/dp/0946819181/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1352043649&sr=1-2&keywords=Mike+Abbot I got it for a steal at $10.50! I've had it in my wish list in several different book dealing sites for months. I guess that is what patience gets you! :D
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby bulldawg_65 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:51 pm

Just to let you know. If you are interested in a copy of "The Wooden Bowl" by Robin Wood, They have two copies available for under $50.00 at Half.com. Here is the link: http://product.half.ebay.com/The-Wooden-Bowl-by-Robin-Wood-2007-Hardcover/59091352&cpid=1378737640

I ordered my copy yesterday! :D
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby ToneWood » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Looks like that Mike Abbot book is only available used from Amazon in the UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0946 ... rious02-21
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This book, "Going with the Grain" looks newer*:
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Quite expensive for a paperback (even the used ones). All of the green-wood/carving books I have purchased so far have very good quality hardback bindings.

Here's a list of Mike's books from his website: http://www.living-wood.co.uk/books.html
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby bulldawg_65 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:09 pm

"Going with the Grain" isn't in my price range either... I've got it on wish lists in several databases. It'll come up eventually at a price I can afford. They always do.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby ToneWood » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:34 pm

ToneWood wrote:Jeez, have you seen this Drew Langsner book, £159+/$250, and that's still available new!
I didn't realise greenwood working had gotten so gentrified! No doubt an instant collectors' item.
A good one to borrow from the library perhaps? :D
"Green Woodworking: A Hands-on Approach (Country Workshop Handbooks)"
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I see this is now listed on Amazon.co.uk for...wait for it.... £1,342.35 new :D :D
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby bulldawg_65 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Geez... Outrageous!
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby gavin » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:26 pm

bulldawg_65 wrote:"Going with the Grain" isn't in my price range either... I've got it on wish lists in several databases. It'll come up eventually at a price I can afford. They always do.

You can get Going with the Grain new from Mike Abbott for list price plus postage. That'd be less than £20 - i.e. less than you'd spend on any decent tool, so I assert you can afford this already.

If you have a mind to make a frame stool, get the book. It is a decent tool! I found it very helpful.
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby ToneWood » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:13 pm

Considering a book as a useful tool - that's a very positive sign. I would love to make a chair but don't feel ready for that yet. Shave horse first - just can't get myself to start on it yet.
bulldawg_65 wrote:Geez... Outrageous!
It is but perhaps not as impressive as it first appears, apparently companies do this sometimes (on ebay anyway) when they are out-of-stock. But I guess if there is only one new copy left in the country/world, perhaps worth a try - who knows, Warren Buffet might acquire an interest in green woodwork late in life. :D
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Re: Green wood carving books?

Postby mstibs » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:00 pm

ToneWood wrote:Shave horse first - just can't get myself to start on it yet.

Takes a day Tone, maybe a full weekend to build one. You need just one thick board for the seat, one smaller for the "top board", some scrap wood for legs and the rest and some screws. I built my first bodgers horse on a Saturday. It's for sure not reenactment safe (an old window ledge from my house is the seat plus some latches from the hardware store) and has no special groovy design (which I btw. admire very much looking at the pics in the horse thread) but works well, bites the wood nicely and is my trusty companion for some months now. Pics follow if you want 'em with all the workarounds I made because of not having the right wood. Just start on it. :D
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