Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

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Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby ToneWood » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:53 pm

The pictures on P128 of Wille Sundqvist's book (German edition) have long intrigued me. I just could not figure out what they were about. I assumed it must be something to do with making the clothes hooks shown on the previous pages - perhaps a wedging/locking system. But apparently that is not the case...
Ein Holz der Länge nach durchbohren.
Mit den folgenden Bildern will ich etwas zeigen, von dem ich nicht geglaubt hätte, das es überhaupt möglich ist. Lage Alenius in Hacksjö , Vilhelmina, hat es mir gezeigt, der es seinerseits von einem jetzt verstorbenen Verwandten gelernt hat. Er zeigte mir, wie man ein Loch von 4 bis 6mm Durchmesser der Länge nach durch ein 10 bis 12 cm langes Stück Holz winden kann, ohne ein anderes Werkzeug als ein Messer zu benutzen.

Google & I translate that as...
To drill through a piece of wood lengthwise
With the following pictures I want to show something that I did not believe is possible. Lage Alenius in Hacksjö, Vilhelmina, showed me it who in turn learned it from a now deceased relative. He showed me how to drill a hole from 4 to 6 mm in diameter lengthwise through a 10 to 12 cm piece of wood, with just a knife.

Even more intrigued now.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby woodchubber » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:03 pm

Making a tube for e.g a whistle. Slice through outer layers ,revolving the branch. Then twist and pull the remaining intact fibres to leave a hollow tube. You'll have to experiment which species work best.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby ToneWood » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:10 pm

Brilliant & succinct - thank you woodchubber, much appreciated :) Extraordinary technique.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby AlexanderTheLate » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:49 pm

I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots.- Unknown.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby ToneWood » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:09 pm

Darn, you are right @ 28 minutes-ish. I've seen the first video before but not that one. Nice old axes, not fancy. Looked like a living Christmas tree that he made the pipe/tube from. Any idea what the fibrous wool at the end was about - a wad seal? Was it for a whistle plunger or a heat piston fire maker? Love those old black & white Swedish craft films, seems like there are several (at least 3 different ones) on youtube.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby AlexanderTheLate » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:32 pm

Finnish video, in this case.

It was a small pine tree, I believe. I really do not have a clue what he made, I read one comment that it was a 'pump-gun', a toy of some sort. :D
I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots.- Unknown.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby Davie Crockett » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:44 pm

It was a "Pop Gun" Similar to this modern version.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby jrccaim » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:56 am

There are three ways to look at the original quote. One is how to drill a 4-6mm hole through a 10-12 cm long piece of wood. Period. The second is how to do it with a knife. And only a knife. The third is how to hollow out a piece of wood in general.

The first question is easy. I would use an auger bit or a telephone installer's bit in a hand-cranked drill. A telephone-installer's bit is a very long bit, perhaps 30 cm long, 1/4" or 6.3 mm diameter. Used by telephone installers, obviously, to drill long holes in your house so's they can run the phone wires (yes, I know, old-fashioned, we all use cell phones these days). But the bits are available. I happen to have a set of shipbuilder augers about 75 cm long in various sizes, unfortunately imperial, but you takes what you can get and these babies are priceless. I picked them up for $11 at the Chinese trailer sale (an Alaska intitution). A trailer pulls up, erects a tent, and inide it you can buy all sorts of tools. This is where you can get oddball tools really cheap. Anyway I have augers from 1/4" to 1/2" by eighths, say 6mm to 12 mm by by 3mm steps. Good enough for bodger's work. When I use them I tape a line level to the bit -- that way I know I am boring straight; I use a taped-downs square to preserve line. (Thanks to Drew Langsner for the technique). In fact, a 4mm hole would be a real challenge; I don't have augers that small. Nor do I have the means to make one. I would have to improvise a 4mm bit. Bit of a challenge.

THe second question is a lot more difficult. Not having Wille's book on hand I cannot answer the question. I will have to ponder this one. ...ohne ein anderes Werkzeug als ein Messer zu benutzen. (without a tool other than a knife) If it is a short hole and I have a narrow knife I can do it, If it is 10 cm long I need a 5mm narrow knife, cut out the pith from both ends and pray for a straight-line pith. Need to think a lot more!

The third question is to me the most interesting one. Suppose I were making a bass recorder, an antique, but still viable musical insturment, kind of a flute. First thing I ever learned to play as a child. About 50 cm long. I could do that with my augers. Bore is a little under 6mm. But I couldn't with a alto or soprano recorder, too small a bore. Let us discard finding suitable augers. I am sure you could find these things on the 'net but at exorbitant prices. Suppose the bore were 3 mm. What would you do? For small bores I would say burn it. Find a piece of steel rod about the right size. File the end to a chisel and then a V-point. Heat it up red-hot and push it as far as it will go. Turn it as you push it in. Heat it up and go further. Get a little further down. Dunno if this will work. Have'nt tried it. Might work. Will have to try it to be sure.

At the other end of the scale we have boring really big holes in really big logs, say a 10 cm hole in in a 30 cm diameter log. Hmm. A difficult problem. Industry has all kinds of solutions to this problem, but I wil lhave to think about it some more.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby Master Webbe » Fri May 31, 2013 2:22 pm

I'm a newbie here. Long story if I give all the details so I'm reducing a long essay to a paragraph here.

I have bored a 4"X1/2" hole on a nineteenth century treadle lathe. The wheel was 2 1/2' diameter and made of a heavy and well engineered Industrial Revolution iron. Now I have a 2" thick by 2 1/2' diameter wheel made of oak and I can't get the torque I need to drive my spindle gouge down the end grain of seasoned beech. A 2mm gimlet flies down it like a terrier in a hole so that gives a good start but the rest is simply too time consuming. The 4" deep hole boring is part of a production process that I'm recreating but, thankfully, I don't have to rely upon. The hole does have to be made while the stock is centred on the lathe and held at one end on a pin mandrel. To recreate the original process, I would need to drill the hole in less than five minutes and I can use a pole instead of the wheel if that would be best.

All responses kindly received.

Kind regards,

Graham.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby gavin » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:29 am

Master Webbe wrote:I'm a newbie here. Long story if I give all the details so I'm reducing a long essay to a paragraph here.

I have bored a 4"X1/2" hole on a nineteenth century treadle lathe. The wheel was 2 1/2' diameter and made of a heavy and well engineered Industrial Revolution iron. Now I have a 2" thick by 2 1/2' diameter wheel made of oak and I can't get the torque I need to drive my spindle gouge down the end grain of seasoned beech. A 2mm gimlet flies down it like a terrier in a hole so that gives a good start but the rest is simply too time consuming. The 4" deep hole boring is part of a production process that I'm recreating but, thankfully, I don't have to rely upon. The hole does have to be made while the stock is centred on the lathe and held at one end on a pin mandrel. To recreate the original process, I would need to drill the hole in less than five minutes and I can use a pole instead of the wheel if that would be best.

All responses kindly received.

Kind regards,

Graham.

I am not quite clear what your intent is here.
    Would you post pictures?
    What is the length of your turning axis?
    What is your desired finish diameter of hole?
    What is your desired finish diameter of work? - or was that 2.5 feet ?
    Do you want the hole all the way thru?
    Why do you want to do this ?
    Where do you want to do it - for if you are doing some sort of living history, that will have different constraints to what you may do just in your own workshop.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby Master Webbe » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:17 pm

This is my current 2 1/2' oak wheel: http://youtu.be/DwW-PxxTht4

Hole being gouged using the nineteenth century lathe: http://youtu.be/bcbfOg_sH68

The whole story is explained on this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD4D03FB44419D5E3

I have not tried boring the hole with the 'Great Wheel' but I can see no reason why that should not work. I cannot practise the 'Great Wheel' at home and it is reserved for demonstration events only. The 'Great Wheel' is made to Joseph Moxon's specifications and is 5' 6" giving a ratio of more than 15:1 on most occasions. The 'Living History' set up can be seen on this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 9PbC1mPOoN

The boxes you can see being made were ordered in their thousands from turners who, restricted by Guild rules, could only have a limited number of helpers. I recall, even the most senior guild members having a maximum of three journey men in his shop and perhaps the same number of apprentices. That shop would have an order for 3,000 such boxes. A normal shop would have only one apprentice and one journeyman. It was illegal to employ wood turners and none could act independent of the guild and others such as carpenters and joiners were not allowed to turn (heavy fines were imposed). There is some evidence to support outsourcing in that one turner might take the order and the money and then pay all the others for their work.

In short, this was a production process that needed to be done quickly.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby jrccaim » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:19 am

Master Webbe wrote:Hole being gouged using the nineteenth century lathe: http://youtu.be/bcbfOg_sH68

The whole story is explained on this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD4D03FB44419D5E3


I am so blown away, as the younger generation says, by the video. I hardly know where to begin. To start, let me say how this would be done industrially (or in metal by someone with a decent long-bed metalworking lathe). We have a treadle lathe here. Continous motion. So what you would do is put a chuck in the tailstock. I know he has a tailstock, it appears in the latter portion of the video. Whether it accepts a chuck is unknown. You would center-drill.. A center drill is a very stiff drill that will drill say 6mm deep, no more. This will give you a starting hole. Then you would switch the center drill for a twist drill and drill out to depth. I'd use say 3mm. If I had a long enough 3 mm drill. Then 6mm. If I heard Mr Driller right he is going "19 mils" I suppose that is 19 mm. OK, large hole. I think the length of the piece is about 10cm long and how it stays put without wobbling at the end is a miracle, or at last unexplained. I would use a steady rest :). If I had a long enough drill I would try something bigger than 6mm. After that, it's boring. No, not tedious. You set up a boring bar between centers and traverse the work along the bed. Concentricity assured. The cutting bit is crosswise to the boring bar. You adjust it to bore out the diameter you want. In metal it takes several passes; might be done in fewer passes in wood. There are variations on this program but that's the way you bore long holes true. It is called line boring in the trade.

Not this guy. He is doing "experimental archeology" as he puts it. How did they do it back in the day? Really valid question. He starts the hole with a plain old ladyfinger gouge. I can't believe he can do that but there it is on the video. Then he uses a handmade boring tool to ream out the work. This is very impressive. I would have to ruin quite a few practice pieces before I developed that skill. Note how he withdraws the boring tool to clear chips. As to using a parting tool to turn the diameter, and I am again blown away. Would use a skew myself. Learn something new every day. When I finish this post I will go right back and watch the whole series from start to finish. And note that he says not to try this on a pole lathe!

It is well to remember what he is trying to do. He is making a one-charge gunpowder holder. It must exactly match the approved charge for your musket. So many grams (or grains in those days) of gunpowder. Drill too deep or too wide and your piece blows up in your face. Too shallow or narrow, your musket is underpowered. So this is high-tech, 15th or 16th century variety. I really applaud this video, and the turner himself. Bravissimo. Thanks for posting it.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby jrccaim » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:57 am

I have now seen the whole series. Absolutely fascinating. Mr. Graham Webb is a superb turner. It takes reall skil to do what he is doing. (BTW the accent is strange to me. Is that Yorkshire? Enlightenment appreciated :) ) I have decoded some of the mysteries. You could never do this stuff on a pole lathe, unless you are much cleverer than I am. The piece is held in not by miracles but by a screw center. The wobble is perceptible, but Mr Webb deftly adapts. If I hadn't seen the video I wouldn't believe it could be done. I would sure as anything have used a steady rest, even a homemade one. The rule is that the overhang from the headstock should not be more than 3x diameter and here is is turning at least 10x diameter. Wow. A fascinating series.

But it is a little away from our nur mit ein messer premise, innit?
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby ToneWood » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:50 pm

jrccaim wrote:... (BTW the accent is strange to me. Is that Yorkshire? Enlightenment appreciated :) ) ...
Sounds like a v. mild northern accent to my southern ears - almost non-regional. Very mild though, only a few words caught my attention e.g. "much", "just", "touch", "comes", "shove" - which he first pronounced with a long-u (northern/midlands) then a short-u ( southern). Probably Leeds (which I count as Yorkshire) as that is where the armory is or perhaps it is a more southern accent modified by living in/around Leeds or vice versa (an educated man I expect). Pure regional accents have become less common in the UK as people move around and mix more these days, far more people go onto higher education (more than 50%?) or work away from home these days.
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Re: Drill through a piece of wood lengthwise

Postby emjay » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:02 pm

East Midlands, probably Nottingham or South Derbyshire
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