Cross cut saw knowledge

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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby nnykamp » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:01 pm

gavin wrote:I wonder if it would be a big ask for a saw maker to supply the swarf from that saw along with the saw - as a witness to the quality it had when it left the factory?
Would such a 'swarf witness' be helpful to buyers?


As you may have read or noticed in your research on this, new saws, even when issued in the "golden age" of crosscut saws did not come swaged, or in some cases even set. So much of the performance of the saw is dependent on the wood you are cutting that factories issued a tool that demanded tuning to function.Often times if you have a saw where the rakers are not swaged, you are holding a saw that was never or little used. What works great for dry firewood would be useless cutting wet bowl blanks. Some modern companies, Tuatahi saws of New Zealand being one, will work with you on delivering a saw set up to produce perfect swarf for your conditions.

(Not certain if you use a different word in the UK, but in the states, a swaged raker is one that has been hammered over into a hook to improve lifting the swarf out of the cut.)
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby Billman » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:51 am

JermyB wrote:4. The last operation of 'setting' was not applicable for my saw. The set on the Garlick is good from new and so I kept it the same. I am told the small hand held saw setters are too small for large cross cuts and some people talk of a small hammer and hand anvil. The amount of set also varies with wood type but there are some good recommendations online as to the optimum set.


The small Eclipse saw set (No 77) is designed for joinery/carpentry tools - however they also made several other models

A No 79 for sale at http://www.bobstoolbox.com/eclipse-saw-set-p-179.html £26

and a No 78 at http://www.londontools.co.uk/Eclipse-Sa ... No-78.html £36

US sawyers used a saw wrest, and set by eye or used a wrest with a guage/stop - http://members.acmenet.net/~con12a/saw% ... sawset.htm

For handsaws see http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/ftj/ ... ing97.html
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby steve tomlin » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:47 pm

Billman wrote:A No 79 for sale at http://www.bobstoolbox.com/eclipse-saw-set-p-179.html £26

and a No 78 at http://www.londontools.co.uk/Eclipse-Sa ... No-78.html £36


Billman,
what is the difference between the two models? are both suitable for a two-man saw?

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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby Billman » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:03 am

From the sellers' on-line posts (you may need to check an instruction leaflet...)

No 78: For Cross Cut Saws with ½" to 1½" tooth pitch and up to 13 gauge thick.

From the images at http://members.acmenet.net/~con12a/saw% ... plier3.htm there does not appear to be much difference between the 78 and 79

However, this advert for a 79 (at £10) states up to 10 gauge, so I guess it is a little larger and stronger than the 78.... http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/ ... no-79.html (sold in its original box WITH the instructions)

Some sellers quote that the 79 is for circular saw blades, but I would think it would set either straight or curved saws...
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby satman » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:30 pm

Having recently purchased the Garlick Finn Lynx one man saw I was not convinced that it was cutting as clean as I expected. On examination of the teeth (It is the Great American patter n) I noted that the centre tooth was in the raw pressed state and looked similar to a rip saw tooth profile.
Being unsure if this was the intention of the manufacture, or if the saw came partly sharpened I contacted the manufacturer, who confirmed that due to manufacturing costs the saw does not come fully sharpened.
I have made the changes giving a bevel angle to the centre tooth and can say that it has made a vast improvement to the cutting performance. Perhaps the manufactures assumes that anyone buying this saw will have the knowledge that sharpening is required. However they don’t appear advertise the fact either on the sales information or anywhere that I found in the delivery information
I just thought that I would share this information as I looked far and wide and whilst I could finding plenty people querying this saw, I never found any one that confirmed what required to be done.
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby gavin » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:37 pm

satman wrote: Perhaps the manufactures assumes that anyone buying this saw will have the knowledge that sharpening is required. However they don’t appear advertise the fact either on the sales information or anywhere that I found in the delivery information


I examined one Flinn Garlick saw a friend bought. The set varied from 17 thou of inch to 33 thou of inch. :shock: The teeth were uneven by up to 12 thou. :shock: :shock: So it needed jointing and re-setting. You are far better to buy the saw not sharpened and not set and do it yourself. Katie of Flinns said she would sell such saws cheaper - you'd be wise to get it with no handle fitted for the Flinn handle is difficult to remove.
Visit http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/index.php for more info on this topic.

satman wrote:I just thought that I would share this information as I looked far and wide and whilst I could finding plenty people querying this saw, I never found any one that confirmed what required to be done.

Also refer the post by JermyB above in this thread on Wed May 30, 2012 12:04 pm where he reports his fettling of the saw. He comments the set was o.k. He was lucky, I measured my pal's set with a dial-micrometer. When you look at Flinn's How its made video, you'll see them tapping the teeth with a hammer but no measuring of set is shown.
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby Frudd » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:03 am

Having recently bought a large crosscut off ebay I have spent a bit of time looking at sharpening them. From looking at JeremyB photo he hasn't actually made a raker tooth at all. I used to think that a raker was there to gather up all the sawdust and pull it out of the kerf. I now know that the raker acts like a router plane and chisels out the wood which has been scored by the knife like cutting teeth.
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby gavin » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:27 pm

Frudd wrote:Having recently bought a large crosscut off ebay I have spent a bit of time looking at sharpening them. From looking at JeremyB photo he hasn't actually made a raker tooth at all. I used to think that a raker was there to gather up all the sawdust and pull it out of the kerf. I now know that the raker acts like a router plane and chisels out the wood which has been scored by the knife like cutting teeth.

Jeremy B saw is a great American I.e. non raker pattern.This is the pattern that will be used at BB 2016 saw sharpening class because you can learn this in one day. Raker fettling takes longer.

Courses iñ saws and other topics run Fri 6 May - look in Bodgers Gazette out soon or on the booking page on this site when it is available.
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby ATsawyer » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:10 am

This is the "classic" drawing of how rakers remove the scarf. If the saw is sharp and the wood not too dry or punky, you will get long curly noodles.

cutaway.jpg
cutaway.jpg (20.36 KiB) Viewed 9494 times
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby Billman » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:58 am

Although technically swarf is the waste product of any material removing operation, I have always associated with metal machining - drilling, turning, milling etc...

Filing metal produces filings, but hack sawing doesn't produce sawings - hmmmm

For wood I have always called the waste products shavings or dust - never ever thought of them as swarf (that's after 25+ years teaching metalwork and woodwork)...

Collins dictionary states 'material removed by cutting or grinding tools in the machining of metals, stone, etc'

It gives the origins as c16th of Scandinavian origin; related to Old Norse 'svarf' metallic dust

Or am I just being pedantic????
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Re: Cross cut saw knowledge

Postby gavin » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:42 pm

Well Billman - you may well have taught me something here! I thought wood waste was swarf, but me now thinks I am mistaken!
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