very basic oiling wood question

When you are starting out there are a lot of questions. Ask them here!

Moderators: jrccaim, Bob_Fleet, gavin, Robin Fawcett, HughSpencer

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Jane » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Thanks, that was interesting reading. I've used the supermarket flax oil and its looking good so far.
Jane
new member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:36 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Doftya » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:25 am

Mr. Shepherds blog is indeed facinating, and here is one posting that was missed. It is specifically about a "Safe and delicious wooden plate and utensil finish"

toscano wrote:Stephen Shepherd's blog (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/) and book (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?page_id ... ct=6514105) are two of the best sources of info on linseed oil, in my opinion.

Here are just some examples of his experimentation with raw linseed oil:
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1606
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2322
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1637
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1655
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1611

I hope you find this helpful.
_toscano
"Everyone must believe in something, I believe I'll go canoeing." - HDT
Doftya
Regular
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 4:16 pm
Location: Ajax, Ontario, Canada

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Sprot » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Thank you for this thread - I was mislead at one point that virgin olive oil would cure as well as lineseed oil. Though not much harm done. At least the bowls I made in mean time - they havent gone rancid or anything-
User avatar
Sprot
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:26 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby ToneWood » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:46 pm

Just came across this (@ http://highbarnoils.co.uk/ ):
...when you see products called flaxseed or flaxseed oil it will almost certainly be linseed or linseed oil. The linseed plant is shorter and generally has a bigger seed with more oil. ...

At the above site, £27 per litre for "culinary linseed oil" but only £4 litre for 5L "horse feed" oil. For comparison, my local hardware store sells raw linseed oil for about £3.80 for, 500ml (=£7.60 per litre). Tesco walnut oil (for human consumption) is Walnut oil is £1.52 for 250ml - = £6.06 litre, better than I expected.
Last edited by ToneWood on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby jrccaim » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:29 am

Boy, the question may be basic but there are three pages of replies so far and counting :). The replies range from destruction of rain forest to orangutang deprivation. I hesitate to add my opinion to this vast array of responses. And it may be heretical. But here goes. It doesen't really much matter, as long as it is (a) really truly food safe and (b) you keep it up.

All natural oils oxidize. This means oxygen (which of course is in the air) will attach itself to tender spots on the oil molecules. We untutored human beings call this "going rancid." Oxidized oils taste bad. That's because they are not good for you! Now, modern food industries combat this in various ways. Unfortunately it is a case of the remedy being worse than the disease. The classic example is bubbling Hydrogen through the oil. The Hydrogen occupies all the tender spots on the oil, so the oxygen stays out. No vacancy. So it works, the oil does not go rancid, but it is the dreaded "trans fat" case; the oil thus treated is extremely unhealthy, especially for cardiac illness sufferers. So we are in a trap. If we use trans oils, we are doomed, and if we use real oils we are doomed too 'cause they go rancid. What to do?

Now consider a spoon or a bowl. It used to be said that you should never wash it. Just wipe it out. Well, if you do so, the oil will go rancid. On the other hand if you use some trans type oil you are basically poisoning yourself. Slow but sure. So here is my suggestion. Oil your creation with some type of natural oil. Under NO circumstances use hydrogenated oils. Say good old olive oil, or walnut oil. Periodically wash the thing out, by hand, with (gasp!) soap. Not detergent, mind you. Real soap. Detergent is much too drastic. (In a pinch, you might use it, but please, not too much.) This will get rid of the would-be rancids. Then re-oil it. Let the oil soak in, and it helps if you heat it. Repeat ad lib. Myself, I look at the spoon. Eventually I will say, "hmm, spoon. Looks to me like you're due for some oil. OK, brace yourself!" And I wash it out and re-oil it. And incidentally my son, who spent a lot of time in the restaurant business, tells me that this is the approved procedure for wooden ware! It is rare when modern industry is on my side. Amazing.
User avatar
jrccaim
Regular
 
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:53 am
Location: Willow, Alaska USA

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby ToneWood » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:02 am

jrccaim wrote:... And it may be heretical. But here goes. It doesen't really much matter, as long as it is (a) really truly food safe and (b) you keep it up.
If you don't require a oil that hardens to a protective surface and are happy to wash & re-oil regularly that's probably true. However that overlooks an important (in this context) additional property of some oils that harden to a protective finish, drying oils: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drying_oil,
Drying oils include linseed (flax seed) oil, tung oil, poppy seed oil, perilla oil, and walnut oil....This polymerization results in stable films that, while somewhat elastic, do not flow or deform readily."

Linseed oil can take considerable time to dry completely though (something well known to oil painters,oil paints can 6 months & more to dry completely). That could be a problem when re-oiling kitchenware - would you be willing and able to wait 6 months for implements to dry? Drying next to a woodburner seems to speed things up considerably but has its own risks.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby ToneWood » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:38 pm

<removed by poster: info. adequately covered elsewhere in thread>
Last edited by ToneWood on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Shankar » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:47 pm

Hemp oil in my Tesco at present- is this the same as flax/linseed oil as I am finding rapeseed oil not hardening very quickly and want to avoid walnut if possible (though this did harden fairly quickly when used in past.)

Anyone experienced with Hemp oil.

Shankar
Shankar
Regular
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Birmingham UK

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby toscano » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:15 pm

No. Hemp oil is from hemp seed. Linseed oil is from... well, you can guess.
-T
toscano
Regular
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby ToneWood » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:40 pm

Haven't tried Hemp Oil but it should work - I just looked it up on Wiki, which says:
Wood finish

Hemp oil is a "drying oil", as it can polymerize into a solid form. Due to its polymer-forming properties, hemp oil is used on its own or blended with other oils, resins, and solvents as an impregnator and varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a plasticizer and hardener in putty. It has uses similar to Linseed oil and characteristics similar to tung oil.[9]


Good find ;)
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Shankar » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:38 pm

There was a post here dealing with using polymerizing oil and speeding the process by keeping it in sunlight in a fish tank and dipping spoons as required.
I put some walnut oil in a clear plastic bag and left out for 2 weeks in the unseasonabe summer sunshine then put it on some spoons. It was certainly thicker and a lot more claggy.
I am certain it will harden quicker but as the molecules are larger when oil polymerizes will it penetrate the wood as effectively. Is there an answer or best to oil with fresh oil and wait.

Shankar
Shankar
Regular
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Birmingham UK

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby Shankar » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:18 pm

Sorry following on from that- what in light causes the polymerisation. Is it worth having a light box with incandescent/ halogen light in which oiled spoons could be put to speed things up. Could dry the spoon out in there too. (or will it crack)

Shankar
Shankar
Regular
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Birmingham UK

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby gavin » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:09 am

Shankar wrote:Sorry following on from that- what in light causes the polymerisation. Is it worth having a light box with incandescent/ halogen light in which oiled spoons could be put to speed things up. Could dry the spoon out in there too. (or will it crack)

Shankar

Dunno. Try and see. Any heat source will speed drying, and also cracking. You could set it on electric blanket for low heat. Microwave ovens are readily accessible. I'd experiment with differing heat sources on different pieces cut from the same billet of wood.
Why use more CO2 than you - or I - want? There's no point burning fossil fuel.
Given the good sunny weather at the moment, you may as well start with heat from that nuclear power station in the heavens, plus putting it under glass if you want. Or a polythene bottle cut in half, your blank inserted and then re-unite the bottle halves.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby ToneWood » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:42 am

I've heard folk (Wille/Jogge Sundqvist?) suggest leaving a bottle of linseed oil on a Window sill to thicken it &, perhaps, start the polymerization process. Why? I guess so that oiled items dry quicker. I assumed the UV in sunlight was the key element - but perhaps not, as oiled wood will dry fine indoors without sunlight. Linseed oil does thicken in the bottle over time but it is quite a slow process. I normally have 2 or 3 bottles of raw linseed oil in the garage of different ages + some walnut oil in the kitchen. I generally use the the newest/thinnest/lightest colored oil for the first and second coats - on the basis that it will probably soak in more. Later coats, I tend to use progressively thicker oil (or oil + beeswax). Don't know if it makes any difference though.

I avoid "boiled" linseed oil - which often (but not always) include toxic chemical thinners, to aid penetration/drying. Some mix their own (usually toxic) thinners with the oil to the same end; I avoid that too.

BTW I read a book on "regular woodworking" at the weekend that said you need at least eight coats for oil finishes with several hours drying time between each coat - but it was describing how to get a highly refined, highly polished finish, which required "cutting back" & similar techniques using fine "flour paper" and the like between applications. I usually do 3-5 and later, if it looks dry, I'll dust it & re-oil it, otherwise I leave it. I'm not trying to get a highly polished finish.
Last edited by ToneWood on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: very basic oiling wood question

Postby deadsquirrel » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:53 pm

I note only one passing mention of tung oil, this is rather a pity as it has an advantage over linseed oil in that it will make a waterproof seal. There is Danish oil, but, like boiled linseed, it has toxic drying chemicals added. Pure tung oil once dry will protect against fruit leaking onto the surface. There are other advantages shown here http://www.buzzle.com/articles/tung-oil ... d-oil.html and more detail at http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/sit ... /oils.html
deadsquirrel
new member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:39 am

PreviousNext

Return to Beginner's corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests