New member - need advice in tool sharpening

When you are starting out there are a lot of questions. Ask them here!

Moderators: jrccaim, Bob_Fleet, gavin, Robin Fawcett, HughSpencer

New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Chrisfrost » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:17 am

I have just got started with a pole lathe - assembled from a part collected kit that a friend wanted to get rid of (or was that his wife???). I found the hints, references and suggestions on this site absolutely vital. I realise that this is a 'learning process' and I'm on 'mk III' for the treadle already. .... But it works and I am enjoying being able to turn a few experiments.

First project is actually the shave horse - which now has a bed and legs with turned tenons.

Which brings me to my problem. I have a set of wood turning chisels & gouges that my dad used to use an a modern lathe - so they are probably HSS .... And blunt (I know they are blunt / rusty - but otherwise level & not damaged). I have a lovely draw knife that used to be my grandfathers - sheathed, which is just as well as you can shave with it. I have a a well used oilstone ... But I now wish I had learnt how to sharpen tools from them when I had the chance.....

I did try to research online - but all I found seems to be a PhD course in 'sharpening chisels' - that ran for 4 pages on how to make sure that the back was flat.

Does anyone have some advice on sharpening - particularly on sharpening the rounded gouges .... I just checked the bevel on these about 60 - 70 degrees ... Not much advice out there on bevel angles but I was expecting something more like 30 - 40. - any thoughts?

Thanks

Chris

Lathe.JPG
A poor photo of the lathe - in a crowded garage
Lathe.JPG (38.7 KiB) Viewed 10718 times
Attachments
Chisles2.jpeg
Close up
Chisles2.jpeg (65.14 KiB) Viewed 10718 times
Chisles.jpeg
The Chisel Set
Chisles.jpeg (68.92 KiB) Viewed 10718 times
Chris
Chrisfrost
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby SeanHellman » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:20 pm

These will be great for for the pole lathe but will need to be reground on a bench grinder or linisher, you will be there for ever on an oil stone.

Primary bevel angle will be about 25-30 degrees, i do not really add a secondary bevel but one will appear over time, with repeated sharpening.

Do make sure that you rub down and make good the inside of the gouges, it is easy enough to make up profiled wooden blocks that fit inside the gouge with wet and dry paper wrapped around them.

I am of the opinion that sharper is better, and I put time and effort in getting a good mirror polish on the edge, it is easier to keep sharp and stays sharp longer.
"Scarcely anything is original- it`s very hard to be totally inventive, so I am not terribly interested in originality. Vitality is all I care about" Clive James
Green wood courses, tools, demonstrations.
http://www.seanhellman.com/woodwork/
User avatar
SeanHellman
Regular
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: South Devon

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby gavin » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:55 pm

Where in the world are you? This learning will go quicker if you could consult with A N Other reader of this board. You can declare your location on the user control panel - or some such where.

I am with Sean. Get a linisher or grindstone and take your angles to 25 degrees. Cool your steel frequently in water else you'll lose the temper.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby AlexanderTheLate » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:21 am

I wonder about the 25 degrees, I hear Curtis Buchanan grinds his much steeper (how steep, I do not know), he claims it gives him more control. :)
I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots.- Unknown.
AlexanderTheLate
Regular
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:10 am
Location: Central Newfoundland,

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Terry in Ottawa » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:22 am

Curtis Buchanan uses a power lathe and not a pole lathe. His bevels are probably close to what you have on your HSS tools.
Terry in Ottawa
Regular
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:10 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Robin Fawcett » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:06 am

I still maintain that 25-30 degrees on gouges is too shallow an angle for turning tools - the edge just won't last. I grind my roughing gouge and spindle gouges to 45 degrees on a bench grinder until I can feel the burr then go straight to the lathe with them...
http://www.facebook.com/GreenWoodwork?ref=tn_tnmn[url=http://www.treewright.co.uk/]
Green woodwork courses, treen, demonstrations & talks http://www.treewright.co.uk[/url]
User avatar
Robin Fawcett
Site Admin
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Location: Essex/Herts/London

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Chrisfrost » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:31 am

Many thanks for the suggestions. I have access to a bench grinder so will look at getting that bevel down to 45 degrees - at least on the big gouge. I have seen others suggest that actually using the tool (on a lathe) acts instead of stropping.

I also saw a suggestion somewhere for making up wooden blocks to clamp the tool to - so that it held the bevel flat & at desired angle to improve consistency ... Might experiment with that too.

Thanks again - bound to be more questions as I get into this

Chris
Chris
Chrisfrost
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Chrisfrost » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:55 am

[quote="gavin"]Where in the world are you? This learning will go quicker if you could consult with A N Other reader of this board. You can declare your location on the user control panel - or some such where.

Hi Gavin,

Thanks - I have now found & set my location. "Some such where" was close ..... I couldn't find that setting yesterday - but I think it was because the account still hadn't been enabled then.

I will try out the advice and publish results.

Thanks again all

Chris
Chris
Chrisfrost
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby ToneWood » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:34 pm

I use slow wet grinding wheels for my hard carving tools (but more often, just sharpening sticks or a decent modern Draper/Faithfull 2-grade benchstone) but I gather that turners don't have the same need to keep their steel cool & they sharpen frequently, so tend to use fast bench grinders (or linishers/belt grinders apparently). You can find them pretty easily & cheaply.

BTW Do you guys with hand/foot-powered lathes turn green wood or seasoned wood? I spoke with a turner recently who uses a powered lathe, he explained that he seasons his wood for a couple of years or more before turning it.
ToneWood
Regular
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby gavin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:48 pm

ToneWood wrote: Do you guys with hand/foot-powered lathes turn green wood or seasoned wood? I spoke with a turner recently who uses a powered lathe, he explained that he seasons his wood for a couple of years or more before turning it.

Green if I am the input energy. Green if I breathe the resulting dust. Green if I want to support local forestry and get out in the woods and select or fell my own raw material. Green 'cos I either like or can later adjust for it going oval as it seasons. Green if I want to cleave it and so have long grain running thru my work. Green if I want to have a smaller cross-section to bear a given load and thus lighter furniture. Green if I want it to season quickly.
Gavin Phillips


- teacher, demonstrator & supporter of greenwoodworking & human-powered turning
- Supplier of Fun & Confidence

info@shed-therapy.com
http://www.shed-therapy.com
User avatar
gavin
Regular
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Dalbeattie, near Dumfries, Scotland

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby TonyH » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:24 pm

ToneWood wrote:I use slow wet grinding wheels for my hard carving tools (but more often, just sharpening sticks or a decent modern Draper/Faithfull 2-grade benchstone) but I gather that turners don't have the same need to keep their steel cool & they sharpen frequently, so tend to use fast bench grinders (or linishers/belt grinders apparently). You can find them pretty easily & cheaply.


Power lathe turners can get away with using a fast, dry grinder because mostly they will be using HSS tools which have higher tempering temperatures,, and a steep bevel angle so the heat is more readily conducted away from the edge.

Pole lathe tools (including the Ashley Iles ones) are often made from good old O1 carbon steel, and have a shallow bevel angle so making it much easier to overheat the edge.
TonyH
Regular
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Chrisfrost » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:24 pm

I have successfully turned both green and seasoned wood (even with blunt, rusty tools). From what I read - sharper means easier and safer ... So definitely going down that path. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing people using pole lathes for turning hard seasoned wood.

The hand / foot powered lathe WAS the only way to turn wood before a motor was available.... If it was good enough for Leonardo - or Chippendale .... It's good enough for me. I am finding that a foot powered lathe is slower, but much more 'hands on' than machining
Chris
Chrisfrost
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby TonyH » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:26 pm

I turned a bit of Brazilian mahogany the other night. Seasoned for about 50 years, it turned quite easily with sharp tools.
TonyH
Regular
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby AlexanderTheLate » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:47 pm

Terry in Ottawa wrote:Curtis Buchanan uses a power lathe and not a pole lathe. His bevels are probably close to what you have on your HSS tools.


I was mistaken. Though his tools work on a treadle lathe, and perhaps a pole lathe (I will re-grind an old gouge later on and see).
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2600/2605.html
I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots.- Unknown.
AlexanderTheLate
Regular
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:10 am
Location: Central Newfoundland,

Re: New member - need advice in tool sharpening

Postby Chrisfrost » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:37 pm

image.jpg
Fairly newly cleaned gouges - now with 45 degree bevel
image.jpg (36.92 KiB) Viewed 10541 times
..... Having followed at least some of the advice - here are the results

I carefully cleaned up those chisels as suggested - see attached photo. I also had some help in reminding the bevel down to 40 to 45 degrees .... Couldn't really get any lower than 45 degrees properly as it was only an 8" grinding wheel and I was unable to get the chisels flat on the stone so I think that the back edge is at 45 degrees and the 'business end' is at 40 on a couple. All the rest I just stuck to 45 degrees. I made up a jig to hold the gouge at a constant angle - so I only had to twist it and of course kept cooling it.

I have yet to apply the oil stone - but already they are easier to use and I get a much smoother finish to the cut / longer shavings.

And green wood is definitely much easier to use than dry. :D

Should I really be looking for a very big wet stone for this sort of thing?

Chris
Chrisfrost
new member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dorset, UK

Next

Return to Beginner's corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron