Interesting splitting axe

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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby gavin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:51 am

Is there a video comparison of splitting wood from the SAME TREE with this ax and of conventional ax?
I'd like to see that on the same day and and the same chopping block and the same person.
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Christophe » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:32 pm

Hi,

I completely agree with Gavin, there is no point in comparing what doesn't compare, actually, all the video posted here are pushing me to think that there's something dodgy about the "new design"....
As for cutting wood effectively in cold weather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BnJJMCc0ZQ
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Heikki Kärnä » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:23 pm

gavin wrote:Is there a video comparison of splitting wood from the SAME TREE with this ax and of conventional ax?
I'd like to see that on the same day and and the same chopping block and the same person.

I refuse to use the conventional axe or maul any more when splitting the fire wood. One of the reasons why I started to develop an axe was the lack of security.
There has never been any safety elements in the conventional axes or mauls. Because this situation has valid since the stone age, it has been considered to be as normal situation. Not a single axe manufacture has carried any responsibility of the health of the user. There has happened endless numbers of accidents in firewood splitting. Only in Finland happen thousands of accidents every year. I started my fire wood splitting, when I was 6 years old. I used the conventional axe until I was 50. Then I started to think, could this be done differently? A few years passed in thinking hard and making different prototypes. Finally I found the ideas how to make such an axe, where is practically NO FRICTION, splitting force many times bigger than in the conventional axes and mauls. The leverage multiplies the splitting force. First time in the history there are in build safety elements in the blade those causes certain rotation fully automatically and stop the blade on the top of the block or slows down the speed so, that it is fully under the control of the user.
Friction takes most of the kinetic energy and in those cases when the blade gets stuck into the block, all the energy has vanished to the friction.
Vipukirves/Leveraxe penetrates into the block on an optimum strike only 5 millimetres, less than a quarter of an inch. So the friction is practically non existent.
At the very moment, when the edge of the blade touches the surface of the block, the blade starts to lean to the right. The leverage happens, 5 millimetres /18 centimetres. The leverage multiplies the splitting force a good 30 time bigger without the friction. That is why the splitting looks so easy and people think that there are no knots in the blocks. The knots are NO problem as far as you know a little bit of the structure of the tree.
I am sorry to say, but I cannot fulfil your wishes, because I am not going to touch the conventional axes or mauls any more. After creating the Vipukirves/Leveraxe I considered the use of it so convenient and safe that I decided not to to put myself to any danger any more.
I will be 74 years in two weeks. The whole experience in fire wood splitting consists of 68 years. There has happened many near misses and some minor accidents. I consider that era as history to which I do not want to go back.
I try to find some videos where the circumstances are the same. Of course I use only the Vipukirves/Leveraxe.

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=KCJAD ... O%27Nymous

http://books.google.fi/books?id=wS7UAAA ... xe&f=false

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http% ... O%27Nymous

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http% ... O%27Nymous

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http% ... meahwahwah
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby goldsmithexile2013 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:08 pm

Nice videos, and all credit for getting your product on the market, but I am not convinced :D . Those arent really very gnarly old crotches, just small regular birch (by he look of it) with one or 2 small side branches. Nothing my axe cant handle-but admittedly it struggles sometimes with big forked v crotches like you get on some oak ash willow beech alder etc in which case I use wedges. I have a powerful rotary spiral splitter any way....The old boy from America could of started with 80 inch logs, makes absolutely no difference when you split radial off the edge bit by bit.....that method works perfectly well with my own present axe

PS why do you split your wood so small, its kindling at that size isnt it I would of split them into 2 or possibly 4....
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby gavin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:21 pm

I note your comment:
Heikki Kärnä wrote:I am sorry to say, but I cannot fulfil your wishes, because I am not going to touch the conventional axes or mauls any more. After creating the Vipukirves/Leveraxe I considered the use of it so convenient and safe that I decided not to to put myself to any danger any more.

I understand your safety concern, and you'll also understand our wish to have as direct a comparison as possible. Would you be interested to send me an axe for a passaround?

Heikki Kärnä wrote:I try to find some videos where the circumstances are the same. Of course I use only the Vipukirves/Leveraxe.

I clicked on each of the above videos, one of which did not load. Of those I saw, I was not aware that any have the same tree split with your Leveraxe and with conventional axe, and at the same or near the same time and on the same chopping block. Please draw our attention to any video where the same tree is split with both types of axe in directly comparable circumstances.
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Heikki Kärnä » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:53 pm

It is totally impossible dream to find exactly two blocks alike. Each block is individual and differs in a way or an other from the others.
That is why there is no way to make such a video as you suggested.
Make a comparison this way. You have a problem stone in your yard. You want to move it away. You use an iron bar. You hit the Iron bar aside to the stone. What happens, nothing. The iron bar penetrates into ground and stops. What do you do next? You twist the iron bar to create leverage. Why?? Of course to get the required power to move the stone. Use your imagination. Imagine, that part of the block is the stone that you must remove. Imagine that the Vipukirves/Leveraxe is the iron bar. You hit to the appropriate part to the block and let the physical laws to make the rest.
The blade is one sided, eccentric. This means, that because you have given the blade some speed, it has kinetic energy. Because on the other side is more weight, the blade starts to lean to the right at the very moment when the edge of the blade touches the surface of the block. On an optimum strike the blade penetrates into the block only 5 millimetres, less than a quarter of an inch. The leverage multiplies the striking force many times bigger. The kinetic energy turns to the left and pushes the part away. Blade stops on top of the block,or slows down the speed so, that it is fully under control of the user, because of the safety elements. All this happens in a fraction of a second fully automatically. Important is to hold the handle as gently as possible to allow the rotation.
Why the splitting is easier in the winter time?
Friction is the answer. In winter the moist (water) is frozen in the wood. This means, that when using the conventional axe or maul, the friction is smaller because of the ice in the wood. This concerns all the tools which bases to wedge. The wood, itself does not get weaker in the winter time.
When using the Vipukirves/Leveraxe the situation is totally different, because the blade penetrates only a few millimetres into the block. So the friction is practically non existent. For the same reason it is all the same whether you split the firewood in the winter or in a hot summer day.
Summary.
No friction + leverage+safety elements= Effective, safe and enjoyable splitting.
Check this competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTag8CLWeqw
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Christophe » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:21 pm

Hi everyone,

Is it just me or there's something wrong here....
First, it seems that none of the video posted to compare the new design to anything different are worth anything, like the last video, on one side we have a guy with a knotty piece of wood using what clearly looks like a shitty splitter and on the other side a perfectly grain piece of wood chopped down with the new axe.
Then there's is this supposedly letter by one customer and those explanation about the blade not entering more than 5mm.....etc
So, maybe it is just me, but all this sound like crappy advertising for brainless people.
And if the inventor is so concerned about security, it would be possible to found a wood worker using a classical maul. Then in order to compare really, each of the participant could have a blow one after another and then we (potential buyers) could decide if it is worth the price.
I guess this will not happen and therefore I'll stick to the classical axe shape.
Sorry if I put some bad vibes on this forum, but it rather annoy me to witness what looks (to me) like dishonest thread.
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby goldsmithexile2013 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:46 pm

LOL my Husquie splitting axe is the original Uncle Ben splitter, it never sticks.....! 8) :roll:
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Heinrich H » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:18 pm

Heikki Kärnä wrote:It is totally impossible dream to find exactly two blocks alike. Each block is individual and differs in a way or an other from the others.

No friction + leverage+safety elements= Effective, safe and enjoyable splitting.


The first is just avoiding the test. No identical block are needed.

The second ....If there really are no friction then something very interesting happens.
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Heikki Kärnä » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:29 pm

goldsmithexile2013 wrote:Nice videos, and all credit for getting your product on the market, but I am not convinced :D . Those arent really very gnarly old crotches, just small regular birch (by he look of it) with one or 2 small side branches. Nothing my axe cant handle-but admittedly it struggles sometimes with big forked v crotches like you get on some oak ash willow beech alder etc in which case I use wedges. I have a powerful rotary spiral splitter any way....The old boy from America could of started with 80 inch logs, makes absolutely no difference when you split radial off the edge bit by bit.....that method works perfectly well with my own present axe

PS why do you split your wood so small, its kindling at that size isnt it I would of split them into 2 or possibly 4....


Fire wood have been splitted since the stone age. There are innumerable amount of axes and mauls in the world. All of them have something in common, Friction. Also the lack of security. All of them are based on wedge.
Vipukirves/Leveraxe is the very firs axe-like tool that uses leverage. The advantages are. Practically no friction, Many times bigger splitting force because of the leverage. Safe and enjoyable to use.
We use smaller size of firewood because we have different kind of fire places.
Look and listen the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XIZKNBnnNM
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby dan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:42 pm

The blade of the axe may never hit the ground when cutting but it does when he throws it on the ground haha!
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby goldsmithexile2013 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 pm

yada yada yada, well I looked at the video (again :roll: ) for what will be the final time. It showed small clear little birch logs being split. Birch splits easy any way. My current axe does the exact same task with no bother. I see absolutely no reason to change to a new axe. I paid £50 for my husqvarna splitter and intend to get my money's worth out of it. We have a wise saying, "if it isnt broken, then dont fix it"
Heres a sudgestion-Get you some big elm vee crotches, with a base trunk about 18 inches wide going into 2 branches around 10 inches wide, lets see a you tube video of that being split up with your invention....in fact you havent even got any video of your axe splitting regular elm logs.
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby toscano » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:49 pm

I honestly don't understand the direction this thread has been taking.
Here we have the designer and maker of a tool join our forum to tell us more about his work (first posted by one of us, so this is not unsolicited advertising) and we are nothing but dismissive. By all means, nobody expects you to throw away your axes and run buy this one. In fact, nobody expects anyone to see the necessity for this tool.

But think: what have we gained with this dismissiveness? Not likely the interest of other toolmakers who read this thread and will refrain from commenting in the future; not likely the benefit of Mr Kärnä's experience and views.

split and let split,
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Billman » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:13 pm

Having trained as an engineer, then taught design in secondary schools for 25 years (to A level standard), one of the things I taught was Product Evaluation (including Reverse Engineering).

For two products to be compared the situations should be as similar as possible - in this case, the same wood, of as near identical size, grain, moisture content etc (ideally two consecutive logs from the same tree) - the process should be as similar as possible, i.e. tangetial or radial splitting, and ideally the same person using the two tools, on the same chopping block.

While I have not examined the above axe, nor used it, I can only state that in the videos it appears to do what is expected of it - and it does have some good elements of design. However, I cannot compare it to my 4lb felling axe, nor my splitting maul - both these behave differently, and one works work better in certain conditions than the other.

It appears that Heikki Kärnä did not start this thread, and has joined it to add information to it - the fact that he is the designer/manufacturer should not cause us concern.

While we may have some doubts about his claims, and the methods of comparison used in the videos, it does not necessarily mean his product does not do what is expected of it. I would this like to see a proper like for like test, and if he does not want to use his old maul or axe, I am sure there are plenty of others who would be willing to undertake the comparison testing on his behalf..
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Re: Interesting splitting axe

Postby Brian Williamson » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:32 pm

Toscano and Billman have beaten me to it.

Whilst Mr Karna has every right to extol the virtues of a tool that he developed and is producing, it appears that nobody else on this thread is talking with the experience of having used the axe. Without that experience, whilst we both could and should doubt and question, we have no right to be dismissive.

Personally, I remain unconvinced that it will out-perform my favourite splitting maul, but it is an interesting idea and it does, very obviously, split logs. If one could be obtained for the next Bodgers Ball it could be given a thorough road-testing against a wide range of other axes and mauls and in a range of timbers.

Have we got a weight for it anywhere? It looks fairly lightweight (and I mean that as a compliment), so it would be interesting to know what weight of comventional axe/maul we should be comparing it with.

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